Talor Ofer is a natural-born entrepreneur. Just ask his father who first started testing Talor’s salesperson skills at the early age of 6.
Talor started by selling sweets and soda as a 6-year-old grade-schooler in Israel. Fast forward to today, he deals with the largest retail chains in the USA – Walmart, Neiman Marcus, CVS, and more. Talor now also heads Retail Empire – a wholesale-retail consultancy and coaching firm. It’s been a long and inspiring journey to be sure, but in between taking charge of the family business and traveling all over the world, Talor found his niche in retail and has been moving forward since.
We were lucky to have Talor sit as our guest at the Seller Roundtable podcast a few months ago. Watch below as he chats with Amy and Andy, answering questions about retail and more:
Ecom and Retail: Similar yet Different
Entrepreneurs both in eCommerce and retail follow the same branding and marketing principles. But the methods to carry out these principles may differ between the two business models. Which of these are the same and which are different? Here are some insights we’ve gathered from Talor’s interview:
- Branding is strengthened through colors, images, language, and other elements. In eCommerce, you do this through your listing, social media, website, and other media. In retail, your packaging design, catalog, and other collaterals carry out your brand.
- Ecommerce fulfillment centers that distribute individual orders are irrelevant in retail. The retail store orders products in bulk and receives them all at once. Retail store payment terms are usually slower – 90 days or more. Except for smaller mom-and-pop stores that usually pay wholesale orders in cash upfront.
- Reaching a retail buyer versus reaching the target audience online is also different. While online correspondence is the norm in eCommerce – this does not perform as well in retail. Online forms and emails may go unnoticed by retail stores, although Talor endorses Linkedin as an effective direct marketing platform.
6 Points To Consider Before an Ecom to Retail Expansion
Scaling to retail is part of the dream. It begins the transition from small business to a larger-scale organization. Naturally, there will have to be adjustments – most of them major – and all requiring a system to be put in place. Talor helps us understand the process by breaking down 6 points to consider before the eCom to retail expansion. To wit:
1 – Branding
Branding is universal. It applies to all business models on all platforms and is reused consistently across the board. But it is also executed in several different methods. How do you represent your brand at all touchpoints with your customer and your retail buyer? In the case of wholesale-retail businesses, this is done through broadcast media, marketing collaterals, packaging design, and other methods. Remember to be consistent with your branding on any medium.
2 – Catalog
Retail buyers usually ask for a catalog of all your products. Make it comprehensive, easy on the eyes, and on-brand. The goal of your catalog is to help your retailer arrive at easier and more informed decisions when purchasing a wholesale order. On top of that, this is a good chance to prove your professionalism and credibility as a brand.
3 – Brief
Prepare a presentation. Assume that your prospective retailer receives hundreds of proposals from several different brands. How do you stand out? Do your research, study the location, and be clear about your brand’s value. Be knowledgeable, confident, and empathetic in your presentation.
4 – Packaging
On an eCommerce listing, you have the space to post photos, infographics, or copy to sell your product. You won’t have that on a brick-n-mortar shelf. Your packaging will serve as your listing – use it wisely to convince your customer to buy. Remember that your product will be seen alongside hundreds of its competitors on the same shelf. Your packaging must give a convincing first impression.
5 – Research
Competitive research is a non-negotiable in eCommerce, retail, and every other business model. Memorize all your competitor’s moves. Set yourself apart. Be the better option.
6 – Pricing
Wider margins are vital for your survival in a wholesale-retail business model. Big box retailers will only pay up to an average of 40-60% of your MSRP. If your cost of goods cannot allow wholesale pricing, you have to widen your margins more by bringing down the cost.
Iron out all these 6 considerations and soon you’ll be better equipped for the big retail store expansion. Even if you’ve just started in eCommerce and feel that you’re miles away from retail. It won’t hurt to prepare. Remember that preparation and hard work differentiates the dreamer from the achiever – which one are you?
Andy Arnott: Hey, what’s up, everybody? This is Andy Arnott with Amy Wees. And this is seller, roundtable number 137. We are super privileged, excited. Ready to go with Talor Ofer. Talor, thank you so much for being with us today.
Talor Ofer: Thank you for having me today. How are you doing everyone?
Amy Wees: It is awesome to have you here. You know, Taylor, you have been my retail mentor for years now. And we’ve done a lot of great things together. And I’m just honored to have you on the seller roundtable here with Andy and I. And you know, we’re really set. You have an incredible story. But we always start off the show by asking you to give us a blood sample or whatever, you know as much or as little as you want to tell us about your background where you’re from.
Andy: You know, all that good stuff as much or as little as we require not only a blood test, but a negative COVID test as well. You have to have that to be honest. Oh, ooh, we can talk about that later. I can go all day with that. Talor, we have I put my tinfoil hat on. We can talk all day.
Talor: Yeah, definitely for hours. That’s the most vocable spoken topic on Earth right now. Right? Anyways, let’s let’s forget about COVID for at least for an hour. If we can, we’ll try our best to do so. But it’s hard because it’s like related to everything.
Anyway, I’ll start from the from the end. And then I’ll go back to the beginning. Because I just I’m just trying to do it more interesting in terms of how, how do I present myself and you know, with the time being a guest in several podcasts, all of them were at the end of the day made by Amy because she was introducing and doing the whole stuff for me. So as much as she’s calling me a retail mentor, which I don’t allow her but she still calls me like that, because I don’t like the term mentor. I see her as a general mentor for me for so many things. So thank you for that in that chance, Amy.
So right now I’m working with a different bunch of retailers in the USA, mainly for the physical stores, I do also other channels as well. And I’m selling like various different brands, the majority of them are actually Amazon brands, or ecommerce brands. Who will explain later how that happened.
But going back to the beginning of speaking about myself who really I am, I have this very strong memory. I think it was I don’t know, well, quite a lot. Quite a quite many years ago, when I was about six years old or seven, something like that. And my father was doing like he was dealing with education in schools, he was running schools and stuff. And we’ve been living in a school that is like internal one where the students are slipping into school. And we had volunteers coming from the USA, they were coming to to learn about the country and the culture and so forth. And all I knew that we have Americans in this, you know, school and the school was home for me because we were literally living inside school because again, it’s like, you know, a small village.
So anyway, my father comes one day says, it’s almost summer vacation by now. And you have two options. Either you just spend your time doing nothing in the vacation and watching TV or hanging out with your friends or if you want, you can work and earn money. And I was like, oh, I want to work. I want to make money and I was like six years old. And then he goes you know, I thought about it I think I’m going to open like a small kiosk, small store, like grocery store or whatever you call it. And we’re going to sell some basic stuff to those American volunteers and to others as well. But mainly we’re going to target them. What do you think about that? So I was like, yeah, that I want that. I want that to happen.
So in like no time here. opened it in like a few weeks. And then on the first day that he was open, I was literally sitting there six years old, knowing zero English. And I was supposed to sell a lot of chocolates and coke and sprite and stuff like that to Americans. Now I don’t speak the language. I don’t know what’s happening. Not to mention that I don’t know numbers. I mean, they could fool me all around. But you know, these were different days, not like, unlike today. But anyway, that’s where I started my business road as far as I see it, because I was like learning English. And I was learning how to sell and how to communicate. And that’s the biggest, I think thing I learned my English because if you roll forward in my life, and I was in school, and I was quite doing quite good, but the only thing I wasn’t doing pretty much is going to English. You know, English lessons, because I thought like, Okay, I know English, I don’t need to learn that. And indeed, I mean, my English is, well, not well, but it’s quite good enough, you know, to manage in my life. And it’s funny because I never learned English in school only in that store.
Anyway, we were running that store for years and years. Yeah. So moving forward. I did like the normal road that we’re doing back here in Israel. I live in Israel, I stay in Tel Aviv, that’s my hometown, was traveling around, I think 12 years traveling plus living in different countries. I was living in China for seven years. And Japan, three years in Spain, in the States and so forth. And yeah, I mean, I was rolling somehow into retail, because when I got to China, and I was just coming, you know, for a few days just to find a factory. That was 2003. I think I was just searching for one factory for bags. And then I ended up staying there for seven years. Because I was like, you know, I was looking at what I’m seeing. And I was like, Oh my God, everything is here. Like this is this is like, this is the gold. It’s here.
Amy: Where did you live in China?
Talor: I was living in Guangzhou. I don’t want to see what bed was about one job. But I do have a lot of bit worlds. Because it’s like, it’s one of the roughest place to live in. It’s really, really tough, especially back in those days. I mean, now it’s a little bit more like Shanghai and Beijing. But back in those days, it was like, you know, It’s hard to imagine, because 1 million factories were existing only surrounding one job, not inside the city. And inside the city, you had a lot of you know, pirates, factories, unregistered and stuff. So think about it, how much pollution and how much mess in the city. Anyway, I was somehow engaging with a friend. And he was working with big labels in the States. He was doing private label for Walmart. And he was doing for BCBG he was also doing Darien jeans who was still belong to Beyonce. So I was joining him and I started you know, to learn how you do the real stuff because I knew about production because I was doing production even before that. When I was living in Japan, I was producing in other countries and Thailand and Korea and so forth. But then I had, you know, my big lesson of how, alright, you can produce, you can do everything in terms of the production and supply chain. But what about the selling side? So that’s where,
Amy: Let’s say if you’re if you don’t sell your nothing, right? Because you can you can make products all day long. But if you can’t sell them, then you’re still stuck. Right?
Talor: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. I was coming actually from the sales part because what I was focusing on Japan was actually the sales, not the production, the production was a side issue. It wasn’t even an issue, you know, especially when I worked with Korea was much easier than the Chinese one, it was more expensive with much easier anyway. So I learned how to do the business with those retailers. And I learned a lot. And then rolling to 2000 I think six, seven, more or less. I started my own private label at the same time. And I was doing electric items. And I was selling them at Canada and USA to Costco mainly. And then rolling again to 2010. I got back to Israel with my wife, which I got to meet in China. And she’s literally living like 15 minutes from my house here in Israel. But we met in China. It’s funny, like so anyway, I just aside, sidenote, I offered her a week after we met. And to be honest with you, I had the same day we met we sat down and we were talking for like five hours I think and that was at the end of that I was like looking at her and saying like you know I have something to tell you but I’m going to wait for a week until I say that. I don’t know why I said that. But anyway, week later I proposed her and Yeah, so anyway, a month after that we were married in Israel.
Anyway, I got back to Israel. And I thought, you know, I’m going to travel, obviously back and forth to the states and to China because of my business and everything. And then I started to build a few other brands. And during those about six, seven years between 2010 and 2017, I worked with approximately, I guess, 50 to 70 different retailers in the states more or less, we’re talking about Macy’s and target and Costco and obviously Walmart a little bit I don’t like Walmart that much. But anyway, no strong Neiman Marcus, you name it.
Amy: CVS, you’re CVS vendor,right? OfficeMax. I’ve seen your invoices. I cannot mention all of them. But right. Yeah, definitely your retail invoices make our Amazon sales look sad.
Talor: I’m jealous of you guys. I mean, you did the right step, obviously. But then, you know, I was I was looking at those, you know, Amazon things and ecommerce things. When the old started back in, I think 2008. And I even had a dinner. And I had a good relationship with the madeinchina.com owner, they were supposed to be the second Alibaba, but Alibaba went, you know, super becoming a super high end, not high end. But super successful company while made in China, it just went down and down. I don’t know why.
But anyway, Lawrence was one of the owners and I was in good relationship with him, but I couldn’t, I couldn’t get myself into read into the online thing, because I was like, all about retail because that, you know, you know how to say, when you do something, and you want to do it good. You have to go deeper and deeper, rather than just, you know, spreading all around and you know, starting to do different things. And then you don’t, there’s no, like, no focus anyway. So 2017, my last brand that I did, which was wearable tech accessories was not really relevant anymore, because like a lot of vendors came in and lots of things happen. So I was like, alright, let’s let’s, you know, let’s just close it step by step. Roofing is good, we’ll see what happens. And I really was wondering what’s going to happen next, because I have all these connections with the retailers and I want to use them, but I don’t really want to produce because I also got tired from China. So luckily, a few Amazon sellers approached me hearing about me from other friends saying, Hey, we have these beautiful products, and we want to sell them in retail. We know that retail is huge. So we don’t know how to sell them and who to talk with and all this stuff. You have any? Any idea about that? So I was like, Yeah, mate, for sure. Why not? So I started to realize that there was a lot of potential with online sellers, because when I was doing what I was doing, and they were doing, you know, their own online platforms, it doesn’t matter, Amazon or Shopify, whatever it is, they were learning the same thing that I was learning about supply chain, they know how to handle the Chinese, they know how to do branding, at least basic one, they know how to pack a product, they know how to different from what is in the market, they know the language like it’s, it was the same language that I was speaking and I had no one to talk with about with that language until all the Amazon Seller came. And in 2018, I was starting to expose myself to more sellers. And I was like, Oh my God, so many of them out there. I didn’t have any idea about it. You know, I wasn’t. I mean, I never thought about it, like, what do I have what to do with Amazon. And apparently a lot of brands, I just took them and started to see how I help them to become rich already brand, because we’ll talk about it already. But just in general, in short, if you want to sell your products, you have to be rich already. If you’re not already, they’re going to smell oh, this is an online vendor, and they are afraid when I say they I mean the retailers, okay, buyers, whatever title you choose by resistant, doesn’t matter. There’s like general merchandise, officers, many different titles, but anyway, what they they try to smell in the very first place when you approach them is what exactly is this company doing? Okay, they’re showing us nice products, they look good. But then do they understand what it takes to be in retail and that’s, you know, something that I felt strongly and it’s funny because last week, I got an email from Sam’s Club. And I presented them a line and I was moving from buyer to buyer because I didn’t have contact with a certain category I needed a kitchen category. And when I ended up finding the right person, she was like the first question. She was like, Hi, can you tell me who are you working with only in the brick and mortar and she was like balding that and then she was putting on this side note not on Amazon? Like I don’t care what you’re doing Amazon show me what you’re doing the brick and mortar I was like, oh my god, this is what I’m talking about for years. This is exactly and she she nailed it in one sentence. She was a little bit rude but I forgive her as long as she’s giving me business. I So,
Amy: So I think that’s what we have to focus on today is, you know, it’s it’s all culminated to this is, you know, you have this language that we online sellers, for the most part don’t speak unless you teach us right. But the the retail brick and mortar, wholesale sell your products wholesale language is different than the language we speak on online. Right. And, and the business model is slightly different as well, because the pricing is different, the logistics are different. But as you mentioned, the production is mostly the same.
So, um, I think that we should talk about what are those key differences? So in terms of, you know, if I’m selling online, and I want to move my products to other channels, and my next question is, what are those other channels, but if I want to move off of Amazon besides Shopify, right, and we’re talking about all the dot coms, we’re talking about subscription boxes, we’re talking about brick and mortar channels, we’re talking about all of retail that isn’t Amazon, which is like 90%, right, not Amazon and not dot coms. So you know, if I want to do that, what are the the key things that people need to be focused on at a high level?
Talor: Alright, thank you for the question, so the way I see it, and again, I’m not thinking myself as a mentor or anything like that. And by the way, and try not to do coaching or to teach anyone because I find that as a service, it’s much easier for both sides. So six points is what I see as something that you need to consider and to look at when you go to retail. It doesn’t really matter if you go with me or with someone else to buy your own, doesn’t really matter. And I encourage people to do so. And that was six points are points that I, you know, it’s the way I see it from my experience. But most points, not most of all of them are being spoken all the time in the retail space.
So the first thing, the first topic you will have to look at is branding. And I divide branding to mainly two things. Number one is your website. And number two is your catalog.
Now the majority of us do not have any catalog. So then you say, okay, catalog, no big deal, I’ll create a catalog. But then there are certain principles that you want to have in that catalog. Now, it’s very hard to find, I didn’t manage to find until now, an example of how a retail catalog looks like. And I was looking like insane for that online. Because I thought, let me try to refer to this as if I was an online seller. And I don’t know what he’s written. I wanted to see how it looks from the other side. So I was looking for the basics, right? For a retail catalog to show me an example. Let me find an example, how that catalog looks like. And I’ll do something creative, what I at least know what I should have towards right. And I couldn’t find, I couldn’t find I was doing a lot of different tests, I was trying to trigger and find like, you know, private label good companies, very small one micro brands, not huge, so that I can maybe, you know, trace their catalog somehow. nada, nothing. It’s all happening, you know, under the ground. That’s how it is. It’s insane. Anyway, it’s not a Bible, it’s not you know, something huge. But there are principles you need to know both about website and catalog. We’ll get to that later if you want.
But then moving forward to the other four points, then you have the brief. And the brief is a term that I’m using for years to describe how do I describe my brand? Now, I don’t want to come up and say for instance, if Amy is my buyer, and she’s working at let’s say William Sonoma, I don’t want to write her an email. Hey, Amy, how are you doing? Can you check my What do you think about those products that I have here? Do you like them you want samples? No, it doesn’t work like that, you have to talk at some kind of you know, you have to give some kind of presentation. And you want to give it not about you know, not about the products you want to give it about the brand. You want to explain in a very short sentence that this is a brand like a micro brand, rather than just another company selling products, importing and selling. Okay? And we all know the difference. The difference is branding the differences, you know, the mindset different is that you don’t buy from the Chinese companies, factories, whatever, a product and wrap it in a shrink and just put it on your warehouse in the States. You’re doing something different. That’s why we have this amazing term that I love called Rise of the micro brands because most of the people who’s selling on Amazon or online in general, are actually part of the rise of the micro brands. So yeah, the brief is another thing.
Number four, we have to look at the packaging when you walk into a store. It doesn’t really matter what store Bloomingdale’s sale or Urban Outfitters, if you look at the products, some of them are naked on the shelf. That’s right. But most of them, in most cases, they’re going to be packed in a package. Now, if you’re selling on online, and you have whatever polybag in your warehouse for your product, it’s fine. Because nobody, nobody knows, nobody cares. As long as they get the product. When they get it, they already know what they’re getting. That’s what I’m saying, Well, when you walk into the store, and you look at the product, and if you see a box like that, normally, you wouldn’t know what’s inside, right? If there’s no picture of the product here, for instance, you wouldn’t know what it is. And even if there is a picture, it has to be a very certain picture for a person to understand in a second, what is inside. So the thing is, most
Amy: Amazon sellers just have like a brown box or white box or it’s very, it’s it’s not something that you could just put on the shelf. And a lot of times it’s meant just to protect the product and shipping. And so that’s that is a big consideration. Right?
Talor: Right, exactly. So that’s the packaging part. Again, we can go into details, but I want to go through the six points in general, for the time being. And the other two points are actually kind of going to get us number one.
Number five, I’m sorry, is the research. Like if I look at the product that I want to sell the brand, okay. And I’m seeing your brand. Isaac, Jessica Scott Carmel, Christine Vladimir, I’m looking at your brand. And I’m thinking, Okay, I want to sell it, I know that it’s good for retail. Now, how do I know what’s happening in the retail space? Before I start selling it, I have to make research. Now I have to know who is my competitors. That’s number one. And number two, I want to know the competitors from the offline physical stores area, not from the online because these are two different platforms. I mean, yeah, when when TJ Maxx is buying goods, they’re buying it on one in one team in one purchasing team for both online and offline. But they are kind of unique, because if you look at Macy’s, they have separated themes for the online and offline. And singles for the most to most of the retailers that are trying to separate I mean, they do buy for both platforms, the same products, but not exactly their difference. So that’s the research we’re looking for, we want to know what is our competetive competitor are doing in the offline side.
And that goes to the second to the sixth point, which is the last one which is pricing, we want to know how to price our goods. Now Amy knows pretty well about pricing like normally MSRP, which is the retail price, the price you have on Amazon is something around doubled in the wholesale price, meaning if you’re selling a product for $50 MSRP, if you go to the consumer on your Amazon listing, then we start to calculate from $25 as a wholesale price. Okay, we start to get further, it depends on what with what retailer we’re talking with. So for instance, just for the for the example, TJ Maxx are paying 25 off MSRP up to30%. Okay, 30% out of $50, you come you’re gonna get in somewhere in 215, around 14 $15. Now, if your cost landed in USA, for instance, is $18, then you have no chance to work with TJ right, you’re not going to lose money. Anyway, if you look at Macy’s, they’re working 50%. So you’re gonna get 25% for a $50 Sorry, $25 for $50 product. And if you’re looking at Neiman Marcus, for instance, they were somewhere between 35 the lowest up to 60% IMU, which is initial markup, that’s how they markup the product. So at the end of the day, you’re going to sell it for around 40 to 50%, more or less off your MSRP. Again, it’s differing, it’s different from from retailer, the retailer Bed Bath and Beyond are doing it simple, they just walk half MSRP Well, what I’m trying to say is that when you when you come to the table to them, you want to know the price up front, you don’t want to give them price there will be far from what you can get, or far from what they would pay, right you want to be somewhere almost into the target is higher as you can as high as you can. So anyway, that goes with the research. Because if I know how the pricing goes and looks like should look like, I have to look at the research as well. Because if I find in the research that someone is selling much lower than me and I know, more or less, what’s his wholesale price, and I’m trying to offer it for like 20% more than what am I doing here? If I have something special that’s different if I have a patent product, or something super well designed, okay, it’s different. What if I have more or less the same thing? I have to think you know, strategic wise, I have to think about the right pricing and not to lose the buyer or the other side. So those are the six points. My answer was
Amy: No I love it. That’s, that’s great six points to consider. So we got to have the right website, we got to have the right catalog, we need to have a brief understanding of how we present ourselves to buyers, we got to have packaging that is retail ready. And we need to do the research of our how our competitors products look in that store, because we’re not going to pitch a buyer without understanding how we can fit in their store. And we got to understand the pricing, because we’re going to need to give them a quote, and we don’t want to be losing money. So we’ve got to, we got to look at it so that we can price it to where we’re making money. But we’re also offering something competitive for them. If we’re selling Bluetooth speakers, and there’s already a Bluetooth speaker on the market that’s taking up most of most of their shelf space. And we’re not doing anything special. We’re stuck, right. So that’s, that’s really we got to we got to have somewhere where we can enjoy ourselves in and that’s why after all that we got to do the research and the right pricing. So love that.
What about retail channels, let’s talk about I think so many people just assume you know, you mentioned you work for CVS, Costco, Neiman Marcus, Macy’s, all the all the brick and mortar channels. But what I’ve learned from you is that there are so many cool channels you can sell in like Ipsy, for example, a subscription box that you introduce me to that has like 3 million subscribers and their minimum order quantity is like 50,000 units. I don’t think that people even realize what this could do for their brand. Imagine getting an order. And I’ve seen like I said, I’ve seen your invoices. So imagine getting an order of over $100,000 that come straight from your supplier or come straight from your warehouse in the US if you’re working with a smaller retailer. That that’s it’s just, it’s really good. But let’s talk about all the different channels, what are some of your favorite channels to sell it?
Talor: Okay, so yes, as you just explained, like subscription box is a channel, and it’s a huge channel, we have to keep in mind that the retail space in general, all of those special channels are normal channels, whatever you call them, apart from the online, there are more than 80% of the market within marketing the states in the USA. Okay, and I’m looking only in the USA, because obviously that’s my market. And that’s it’s huge, because if you’re selling, you know, to 10 15% of the market, and you’re doing good, what would happen if you multiply that by 678?
Alright, so anyway, yes, subscription boxes are something very good because they have subscribers. And for those who are not sure what is subscription box, it’s just companies that are sending monthly or do a weekly, a box of gifts inside a box to like hundreds and 1000s and millions of subscribers. Okay. On the top of them, you have Ipsy and you have all Drew, and you have glossy box. And literally I’m working with a top five or six, I think and what they do is they have those subscribers and they’re selling them gifts, and that is based off demographic. Like it’s not just you know, if you Amy would be signed to, let’s say Ipsy. And they would think that you are no no, at that age, that gender at that, you know, certain type of person, they would send you the wrong stuff. They doing their homework, and they know exactly how to catch what you like. So there’s a whole scene about it. And if you open youtube and you click unboxing subscription, only those two terms, you would see tons of millions of videos with billions of views because it’s a big thing in the States at least. And I’m seeing that it’s coming up in other countries as well. I just had this email, I just was looking at it as you spoke about quantities I can show screen.
Just to give you a quick idea. This is an email from Lindsay. She’s from Ohio, it’s very nice subscription boxes. She’s describing what’s happening on 22,022. This is from January 3 is from yesterday. Powder opportunity. So they have between 20,000 200,000 units as a one opportunity and then they have the deliveries whatever in two, three months. You don’t have to deliver it tomorrow. Obviously they give you time to prepare to produce whatever you need, budget and everything how it works again, they give you like, typically they will give you one Pio for one date, and they divided like as a blanket order for six, seven, or sometimes even eight different dates. But at the end of the day, again, it’s between 20,000 and 100,000 units. Typically with this company with other companies it’s even more I’ve seen much more than that in terms of quantities, but that’s one channel.
Another channel is the.com. Like if you look at the top ten.com channels in the States, obviously you’re selling it in the number one amazon.com But then you have Walmart which again Walmart is not my field I have to say that I mean it’s there’s a lot of you know, very talented people who is doing specifically with Walmart that’s not I’m not the address for that I can work with our Walmart online it’s not a problem for me, because I know the offline buyers but it’s not something that I
Amy: Walmart.com It’s it’s just like Amazon it’s third party fulfillment where your other dot coms like Lowe’s dot com home depot.com A lot of those channels macys.com They’re you’re selling your products wholesale to a buyer it’s they’re still doing the the old fashion. Well, I don’t want to say old fashion, but the traditional brick and mortar side of things, for the most part, and some of them are moving over. I know like recently Home Depot and Lowe’s move to that third party fulfillment, as well. But for the most part, the top what 50 retailers in the US Top 50 brick and mortar retailers also have websites.
Talor: Right? And they buy and they spend they ship as exactly as you mentioned. And again, yes, Home Depot is now doing the third party seller thing. And also Macy’s, they also have that thing. TJ Maxx no TJ Maxx Marshalls home goods, I think even Tuesday morning, I don’t recall for sure. But most of these you know, low end, I would say low in price or discounters, they would not do that they will just buy from you and sell it on their own channel the.com. And offline as well. So this is like another block. Another another thing you have is like media and TV. I’m saying media because there’s different opportunities in the market. But if I focus on the TV, which is the main thing, there are TV segments, and I’m not talking about, you know, those channels where they sell, you have 24/7 products, I’m talking about different stuff. For instance, there’s a show and me know about that show, because I’m talking about a lot because I’ve been doing fun with them. There’s a show called Good Morning America, in ABC channel in the states quite known by Tory Johnson, I happen to know her assistant, we’re in a good relationship. So I’m showing her products from time to time. And inside this show, which is I think, I think it’s going to somewhere around the crowd. Yeah, it’s something around 150 270 million in the States, which is quite, you know, huge in terms of how many people is going to are going to see your products. And anyway in that. Good Morning America does like a segment called deals and steals. There’s another segment called the view. And there’s a third one, I don’t recall the name. But anyway, showing your products in those in those segments is going to bring you crazy traffic and you’re gonna sell products in like, crazy numbers in no time. Okay, it’s
Amy: ABC as well, right? It’s you have QVC be selling.
Talor: Right? Right QVC. I just send us a lot of them. But I’m just talking about those that I constantly work with. Okay, I used to work with QVC. I lost contact from some reason with them. But then yeah, with Good Morning America, it’s still going on. It’s going good. So this is another channel, obviously, there’s also the traditional channel, which we spoke about quite a lot. Again, Amy and me, which is the mums and pop stores. When you say mums and pop stores. Some people call it specialty stores in the States, you’re referring to a standalone store, like a family store, you know, that’s why they call it mums and dads like mommy and daddy has a store, they go in the morning, they open the store, they sell toys, they sell gifts, they say whatever, it’s a cute store. It’s not a chain store, you’re not talking you know, to something huge. But the good thing about those those stores that if you collect whatever 100 234 100 of them, and each and one of them is ordering typically between $500 to $3,000 a month because that’s normally what you know, they can skill with, then you have a nice business with them. And the good thing about them is that they have different payment terms or payment terms, I guess is another question Amy’s going to ask me at some point. So anyway, they’re paying, they’re paying cash before delivery, okay, cash before delivery means you can charge their credit card or bank wire, whatever it is, but they pay before they get the goods. And that’s normal in terms of mums and pop stores unlike the return
Amy: For shipping, which is so the product wholesale price plus they’re paying you for shipping and they’re paying you up front so all you’re doing is delivering a pallet of goods to them or a couple of cases of products to them. And that’s it’s just it’s wonderful to work with them because it’s a very easy deal. You can get on the phone you can call them up hey you know I’ve got a great product for you send them a catalog get an order that same day, ship it out and they pay for shipping so it’s it’s a great versus like a big box retailer where you’re gonna there’s a different payment terms or sometimes you have to wait for that payment. Sometimes there’s different contracts. Everything’s negotiable. Oh, as I’ve learned from to lower, but, but no matter what I mean, there’s, I looked just in my region in the south region for pet stores and stores that sell independent retailers that sell pet supplies, and there was over 10,000 Just in my region. So if I just go for if I cast a net just for 10% of those stores, right, you know, that’s a significant income if I can, you know, multiply, like you said, you have yourself a nice little business if you’re, if you’re supplying a few of these stores on a regular basis. So I love that. Okay, so we’ve got subscription boxes, we’ve got other dot coms, we’ve got mom and pops. And then of course, we have chains and big box, right. Anything else you want to say about channels before,
Talor: There are more channels, but I just tried to focus on on the interesting one, there’s also flesh sides that you can do nice business with and some other, you know, local wholesalers. And it depends what you’re selling because I’m seeing visitors.
Amy: Right? Yeah.
Talor: Yes, sir. Sorry, I’m starting I started to sell a brand which is like, you know, selling quite basic stuff, you know, shampoo and stuff like that for the shower and face treatment and stuff. And all of a sudden, I don’t know from where someone from my team came up with selling to Harrods. And I was like, What do I have to do with tariffs? They don’t buy such things. But it turns out that they do. Okay, so you have to think what I do think that is trying to encourage people to think wider. Don’t just think about you know, only Amazon or only retail or only both or whatever. It’s the open your mind has so many different businesses that might be good for your product. Sometimes you even miss that you don’t even think about it. And I’m you know, I’m struggling with the same thing. I’m like, standing with my brands out there and thinking like, where else could I sell? What did I not think about until now? And I always find that there are more opportunities and Charles selling schools, selling kindergartens selling like, you know, there’s so many options with different products out there in the market. So just open your mind. I
Amy: Love that. Okay, so you just mentioned you were selling shampoos. And I think a lot of people have the misconception that their product has to be special and it has to be patented and it has to be different to sell to retail and that was the number one thing that I learned from you that shocked me is that you can have the most basic product ever because every retail store needs stuff for there you know, so as long as you fit into that store, but let’s talk about what makes a good product for retail what’s a good product what’s a bad product? How does How should people look at their products when they’re analyzing them for retail opportunities?
Talor: Right so I have you know, I have a good example for that before we go to the basics. I had someone approaching me with ceramic knives Now we all know knives there’s so many knives out there what’s so special so ceramic knife apparently is a little bit different from the arrows although it exists but going down to this niche I understood quite fast that this is something that is you know with a huge potential in the market because it’s ceramic those ceramic knives they cut much easier and much faster. I didn’t know that that I have never used that kind of knife until I met the guy and he was literally giving me symbols like try it upon and see which was amazing. So I found that you know it has an amazing market so sometimes you look at your own products and say No it’s nothing special here No, don’t think like that. But then there are principles I have to say that like first of all is more eskie uses you have is better, that’s for sure. If you’re coming up with like 5647 sk use is going to be hard unless unless you have something special at them now something special doesn’t have to be patent it doesn’t have to be a product that nobody I’ve seen before. It could be the same very box that everybody else has with the same product inside but then you have something special about the branding with crazy colors or with super boring colors something different something that the market has yet to see. Okay and if it if it’s something that the market has seen before and have seen a lot you know grinded products I would call that then you have to come up with a lot of SK use okay because a lot of SK use, why am I talking about why am I saying a lot of SK use because if you look at the buyer side at the end of the day, he has limit limited sources to handle suppliers he cannot handle like 100 suppliers he could handle 50 or 40 or 30 depends you know, so then if one supplier come up and gives him the solution for like 3040 20 Different SK use that’s very good for them rather than taking Three different or four different suppliers for five SK use Ah, right. But at the same time if if that vendor is coming in saying, You know what, I only have five excuse, but look how beautiful they are, then you have something enhance all right now, yeah, the looking good is like, you know, it differs from from brand to brand. But basically those are the terms, obviously, those are the principles. Obviously, if you have a patent or patent pending on your product, then you have you know, something that is easier to move in terms of not having something too spatial in terms of the design or branding. And at the same time not having too many SK use, that will be fine, as long as you have, you know, again, padding or something like that.
Amy: Got it. So the bottom line is we don’t have to have a unique patented product to sell the retailers quite the opposite, we just need to have something that fits. And we need to have margin. That’s the other big problem that you and I have seen. When we we have like a retail review service where we kind of review people’s products and whether or not they’re retail ready, and you guys can take advantage of that you can go to firstname.lastname@example.org, forward slash retail. And you can look at that, and just fill out our form. And we’ll look at your product and tell you if you retail already. But the biggest thing that we see is that they’re either not ready for packaging and branding, because there isn’t anything special that’s going to stick out on the retail shelf, or we see that they might not have enough margin. Because a lot of people are selling with just like you know, they’re sourcing it for, you know, half of what they’re or they’re sourcing it for wholesale prices. And they’re you know, it’s really hard to be able to have enough margin to set something up. So love that. Okay, my last question before I turn you over to my podcast co host Andy over here is finding and talking to buyers. I think that’s one of the biggest things that people are struggling with, because you’re like, Okay, I just do I just fill out this online forum. How do I get how do I get to the Lowe’s buyer? I want my tool and Lowe’s. How do I talk to the you know, the Home Depot person? Or how do I find a buyer and talk to them? Right?
Talor: So I mean, one of the main things that I’m saying all the time, do not waste your time on online forums, they don’t go anywhere. Just trust me on that. I know what I’m saying. I don’t like I don’t want to sound you know, whatever. But it is what it is Do not waste your time filling that. I’ve seen people filling that again, and again, with no results. I feel those forms myself, just to make sure that I’m not wrong when I say do not do it. Okay, I wanted to make sure that I’m not doing any mistake, I don’t want to mislead anyone about anything. Don’t do it. I haven’t internalized information from some retailers that those forms are going nowhere. If they would, you know, go to the FTP server, and they could find it there. But I mean, what a buyer would go to the FTP FTP server when he has 600 emails waiting for him on his inbox, right. Anyway, that’s about the online forms. How do you get to them? I mean, LinkedIn is a good tool is a great tool. I think that LinkedIn in general is like, it’s heaven. It’s really a heaven, when you have to spend a lot of time in order to put your hands on the right person, and to get him to be responsive and to get his email and eventually to get him to see your samples and order and everything. It’s not something that you do in a day. It’s quite, you know, quite how would I define that? It’s quite hard, just quite out. So LinkedIn is one is one option. And another option is yeah, obviously research in the internet of different, you know, different functions of people in the market. I know it sounds strange, but small retailers sometimes put their own emails on the website. It’s very rare. It doesn’t happen a lot. But there are small retailers that does it. You know, when I say small retailers, I’m talking about 1020, maximum 30 different stores. Okay. Normally, they wouldn’t do that you wouldn’t be able to find online Sam’s Club, emails or whatever, you know, free people will steal them or whatever. But yeah, I mean, most of my contacts are based on you know, history, because I was moving from thing to thing. Like if I knew people in Macy’s then I was pulling, you know, pushing it to get some more contacts there. When they left Macy’s and they went to Nordstrom, I went together with them to Nordstrom, so we stayed in touch. That’s how I built my contacts, and are quite a lot of them out there. And then there are you know, other tools, external tools, but yeah, I mean, it’s not it’s not an easy thing. There’s no magic in that.
Andy: Yeah, Talor, I think LinkedIn is a huge it’s super undervalued in terms of getting great connections, especially in the retail world. You know, one of the things you’re talking about, you know, it can be difficult, but if you put us, you know, take a couple hours write a quick system for a VA from the Philippines. And, you know, give them your login info, they can go out and touch a lot of people in terms of, you know, say, like you said Costco, right is is one of is one of your target retail destinations, right, then you would go on and use LinkedIn search to find, you know, people in those job titles that would most affect your ability to get there, you know, to get attention there and connect with them, and then just start messaging them, you know, 90% will probably not reply, but you might get one or two and at least get a foot in the door. So I think that’s, that’s, that’s a really good technique. And it doesn’t work, you know, not only for retail, but like any type of business. Like I said, you know, I’ve been booted off of Facebook multiple times. And whenever that happens, I end up going super deep into LinkedIn. And I keep saying I was glad that that’s happened, because now I’ve built like a massive following on LinkedIn, tons of great connections, they’re really the people that you’re meeting on LinkedIn, or people who are in business, right? They’re not just like tire kickers on Facebook, we’re like, oh, yeah, I’m interested in Amazon or eat retail, I’m gonna kick the tires. Oh, I you know, I sourced this one product, it was a failure, and I moved on, the people on LinkedIn are established, right, they’ve been doing it. Or at least they’re, they’re more serious in getting things done. So I think that’s an, that’s an awesome tip there. So I want to pivot a little bit to on the more professional side of things, you were talking a little bit about, like branding, and packaging, and things like that. But I think that that’s an afterthought, right? When somebody’s starting, especially if they started on the online world, and they want to transition into retail packaging on Amazon is usually pretty basic, and not very exciting. So do you suggest that people should try to start out with some really great packaging? And branding? Or do you think you should prove the concept, you know, on the, on the on the other channels? And once you prove that concept, then maybe go into new iterations on on packaging and branding? So I think,
Talor: Here’s what I think. I mean, if you’re already having a brown or whatever, blank box for Amazon, why don’t you brand it, why don’t you do it something you know, better. And if you’re already doing it better, and becoming like, you know, day by day, becoming a better better brand or more, you know, micro real brand, then you should also keep in mind that you’re going to have retail at some point, either tomorrow or yesterday or in here, it doesn’t matter. But thinking about that, you might want to think, okay, is my product, something that is going to be on the shelf? Or is going to be hanged? Or is going to be stuck to how is it going to be presented and if it is hanged, then you would want to, you know, create an option, at least for J hook, so that they can then have they been hooked, you know, or if it’s not, then you have, you would want to think about what attributes you want to show on the box on the outer packaging and everything. And that’s something that is easy to do. So when your next batch on Amazon, coming to Amazon, you might want to say okay, I’ll take whatever 2030 pieces, and I’m going to put them in my warehouse, and they’re going to be packed with the new packaging, right? And I want to have them as samples up and ready for whatever happens for retail space. Okay, that’s on that side. As for branding, I mean, I think the most basic thing, and the most, you know, beginner point is to look at colors. Now colors is something that you can, you know, there’s a color pair persona or persona per color, you can find it very easily on the internet in terms of, you know, if you look at, for instance, if I’m selling like baby products, what are the colors that baby loves, right? And it’s not necessarily those green, yellow, and red that everybody sees on toys, more colors, and better cars. So if you search a little bit in Google, you can find those colors this Okay, here is where I start to build my story. I’m going to play with those colors. And I’m going to look what is going to be the trends this year or next year. And the trends are all over Google all over the place trends. You can there’s some people are predicting for 2024. Okay, so you’re going to know what’s coming up next. And you’re going to say, Okay, I’m building my brand on that direction, my logo is going to be related to that my packaging is going to be registered. And obviously the website is going to be related to that. So you know, I tried to give you a quick view, talking about a catalog. So this is like, this is like a typical rental catalog. Not really exciting. And those products are super basic. I actually didn’t didn’t I wasn’t sure I’m going to work with them because it’s too basic, but we ended up doing credit sales. I don’t really know how it happened. But anyway, you know, the lifestyle images here are very basic. As you can see, it’s a little bit it’s even like trying to be boring, okay, they’re trying to be boring, but in between, you could understand and I build that, that catalog with them. Mostly on my site, but you can see that all the information that needs to be here is here. Immediately they realize that it is as colorful options in on the site here, and they see all the you know, attributes the need to see and everything in pricing and also pricing and so forth. And if I look, but this is something casual, okay, because these products are casual. And if I look at the last catalog I did on my own private label, this is this was my own brand. You can see here, that it’s different in terms of, you know, it’s trying to get you attracted all the time. And it’s trying to surprise you all the time. It’s trying to be unique all the time. The colors are the background is changing, everything is changing all the time. There’s, you know, those infographic or whatever you call it, images in between. and And, you know, the whole focus here is showing like, I’m sorry, what did I do? I clicked something wrong here. I think I clicked something I shouldn’t hold on. The screen sharing is powered off. Okay. Good. It’s recording. Yep. Yeah. So anyway, the thing with that, that I was trying to say is that you have to match your catalog and your branding and your website, to your products to what you sell, it could be boring, it could be exciting. It could be crazy. You know, dogs, cats, stuff like that. It has to be something fun, it has to be something light, because that’s what dogs are about. That’s what cats are about. That’s what you know, animals in general are about giving us good feelings. So that’s what, you know, light feeling. So anyway, I think you got the point.
Andy: Yeah, no, I love that. And some of the other things that you know, people might want to look into when they’re coming up with those kinds of things are industry leaders, right? You know, if you’re in the technology space, maybe looking at Tesla, or you know, looking at people in the industry that are kind of leading on the on the bleeding edge of design and branding, and those, it gets some great inspiration from them. The other thing that’s I’ve looked into before that I find it super interesting is coloring in terms of driving emotion, right? So I guess red is a very strong color when it comes to food products, right? So like Coke is red, you know, a lot of red and like McDonald’s
Talor: Santa Claus is red, you know why Santa Clauses read the story out, you know, the first time they did the image with him and everything it was with Coca Cola. And since then it stayed. It stayed like white and red. I just started this week. And I
Andy: you know what, I might have heard that. Yeah, that’s interesting. But yeah, so I mean, I just searched food, retail market and color red, and I got a, you know, a bunch of articles. So just do some Googling, there’s some really interesting stuff in terms of psychology, when it comes to coloring, and things like that. And then, you know, also, like I said, check out industry leaders to get some really cool ideas in terms of forward thinking, colors and designs, you know, for like you said, Baby, or whatever kind of niche that you’re in. I’d like to go back to you know, a lot of the people listening probably are not doing retail right now. And, you know, don’t even know where to start. So what are some, you know, major perceived hurdles, you know, when you’re when people are just starting the journey about thinking that they want to start getting into retail.
Talor: So, again, it’s built on the six points that I mentioned, but you have to, I’m answering two points, you have to consider yourself as a micro brand. Even if you have the most basic items on Earth, like whatever, you know, stupid cable to charge your phone, or whatever it is. You want to look at it as a brand. You don’t want to look at it as a product. And when you look at it as a brand, it’s your own baby, you want to develop it you said okay, I have this cable, what else can I do? Oh, can I do a dining then in color cable? Can I do whatever pink and red cable? You know, with lines going across it or something special? Can I just do a special packaging? Can I do something different? This is branding. Now, that’s number one. Number two, I want to share with you guys that I mean the majority of my business and I’m a little bit glitchy from the from the from the topic, but the majority of my activity right now, that’s where my business focus is, is on sales, selling the brands like getting orders, that’s where I do my money. But then the other hand, from the other hand, I always want to see more brands in my field. And I want to sell more brands, because it’s never enough. So what I do is I look at different brands from Amazon. And I’m like, you know, some of them are not with already. And I was thinking for a long time about it until I established a service. And the service I do is like taking them, putting them into a queue where they’re getting on one side is an online, you know, online oriented brand, and pulling them to the other side of the tunnel with my sources as an offline and online brand. Meaning I’m doing a service to read already thing and why am I doing it so I’ll be able to sell more brands because if I don’t do that, I will just sit there and wait for people to do that themselves. Some of them will do but some of them will not. So I’m just saying that. But you have to think again. As a brand on your products, and I wouldn’t be bothered about finding contacts, because you know, as long as you’re heading your brand into a certain direction, you know how it is. I mean, I mean, it’s a little bit strange to say it, but the universe is there, and he’s listening to you and saying, Okay, that’s where you want to go, I’ll give you the solution, you know, to open the door, don’t worry about the door, just keep going to that direction, the doors will get open. That’s it. That’s how it happened to me, because I was like, you know, I didn’t know those holes. 60 returns. When I started this whole thing, they just, you know, one thing led to gather, so
Andy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love that. My wife and I are just finishing up. Miracle Morning. And you know, and you know, things like, the secret and all that kind of stuff, all that stuff is seems really hokey and kind of weird, but a lot of it really works. So you know, as long as it works, then why not? You know, right. Yeah, definitely.
So the other the other thing I’m interested in is, in terms of, you know, especially with the thing we weren’t going to mention on this podcast, you know, people are all freaked out about it again. How is that affecting, you know, supply chain, and not only that, but you know, the relationship between you and the retailer. So, you know, the retailer calls you to say, hey, we want 10,000 units of, you know, widget X, and you say okay, well, I’ll get on that you call your supplier, they say oh, yeah, it’s gonna be three months. How are you kind of? Are you trying to find new manufacturers? Or are you trying to find go to in diversify your your supply chain? You know, what countries you’re sourcing for? Kind of how are you navigating that right now?
Talor: Okay, so I’m, I wanted to run away from production sites. So I’m not dealing with that. And I think there’s so many information, at least that I know that Amy could give everyone about suppliers, in general, it’s always good to have more than one supplier. And when you get an order from retailer, that’s not the point on the line where you want to start and go ahead and search for suppliers, because you’re gonna get, you’re gonna, it’s gonna get screwed, that’s for sure. You want to be up and ready when you when you get yourself to the retailers, here’s the thing, if you get your foot in, in the with other stores, and if you did something wrong, you’re going to be kicked out at least for two years. And you don’t want that to happen, you want everything to go smooth. So that’s why you have to have a very good, you know, supply chain up and ready. So I don’t want to talk that much about the supply chain. Because again, there’s so many so much information out there especially on amazing at home. That I know that is there. But you want to have everything up and ready when you get in terms talking about you know, the correspondence with the buyers, most of the correspondence, I would say 95% is by emails. Another I mean, it depends on the returnable, some of them are using EDI, which is you know, an online system that is transmitting orders and packing lists and all this, you know, paperwork between both sides, because they don’t want to count on emails if anything goes wrong. And EDI is something that also can connect from you to them and from them to their warehouse directly through the air and everything. So that’s the majority of the correspondence, the important thing is in the beginning, until the point where you get the purchase order is to communicate properly. And when I work with my vendors, I’m doing it like, you know, hand in hand with them in a manner that sometimes they send an email, but normally they would show me the email before that if they’re not really sure how to respond or if the response is good. But at the end of the day, you know, it’s people behind those computers. And it’s not you know, it’s not robots, and even if you do some minor mistakes or using you know, some ridiculous language, which are things that is happening to happening to me with vendors, it’s still okay, you can always, you know, move forward. Although that so yeah, but the majority Yeah.
Amy: Cool. So what we would like to wrap up with are some personal development, you know, things that you’re doing right now in terms of personal development for you, you know, any books, podcasts, any anything that you you know, some kind of special meditation, kind of just general life boosting that you’re doing right now? Anything like that? On my
Talor: Well, the only thing I’m doing I wouldn’t call it spiritual besides praying because I’m true. And I’m praying every morning. I mean, look, my morning looks very, very, I don’t know, strange to other people. At least. I started my morning till 5am My guys waking me up like that. Yeah, I want to drink something. But anyway, eight o’clock, I’m in the gym and doing CrossFit the same way that Amy does. She’s doing at six o’clock, I think I’m doing 8am and lazy. And when I’m done an hour later, I’m in the synagogue for an hour. So I’m like getting you know, I’m getting like balance right out in the morning like getting having family first of all, then I haven’t you know, everything I need for my buddy you know, getting in shape and you know, struggling with with barbel stuff like that. And then the third thing I’m getting the assault side from the synagogue I’m sitting there at one hour praying everything’s cool. And then boom I’m on my computer at 1010 20 And yeah, that goes until well now it’s 1212 at night so and it’s normal
Andy: right yeah, I know I don’t know many entrepreneurs that that aren’t working you know late into the night I know my wife and I are always you know, we try to at least get out of the office at home and you know, sit up on the couch but we’re both of us are on our laptops, making calls you know, doing emails, all that kind of stuff, so I totally get that. All right, well, Talor we’ve come to the end here. It’s been awesome having you thank you so much. Let people know how they can get a get a hold of you.
Talor: Well, there’s my website retail dash empire.com If you look at the website and I think Amy I believe she had the link but does return really service on the left side if you want to if you want me to look at your brand and tell you what I think if it’s you know if there’s any opportunity and start to communicate with me or there’s also the contact me the contact page on my site that you can contact me in so many different ways. Very easy. I have huge number and Israeli number WhatsApp telegram you name it. Even Twitter
Andy: Oh wait wait there’s still people on Twitter you’ve been banned yet?
Talor: Well, I haven’t been banned yet but I’m afraid to be so so that’s why I had get get our whatever the name of that is.
Yeah, get get her get her get her Yeah, I don’t know. There’s so many these days like a new one every day. That’s you know, yeah, it’s hard to keep up. It sounds like you know tick tock is the only one that you know you can get on and kind of get away with with just about anything, right?
Talor: I guess so. I don’t have big luck with that. I thought Yeah,
Yeah, it’s it’s one of those ones where I guess I’m getting too old to like understand it right. I’m like, I don’t quite get it. So that’s pretty good. No, thank you. Thank you so much for being on I really appreciate having you and yeah, we’ll we’ll have to have you on again. I know that we could have we could have kept going here because there’s so much to talk about there so we’re really appreciated
Yeah, something got stuck in his microphone. You’re muted Amy.
Amy: Oh, no, we lost Andy. I don’t know what happened. That was okay. Well, good thing that I am recording this session you know, thank you everyone for being here on the seller roundtable. We’re gonna hit stop on the recording and the live stream. And thank you guys so much for reviewing rating and subscribing. We love you guys. Thank you for your votes in the seller poll. We appreciate you so much. And we’ll see you guys next week on the seller roundtable. Bye, everyone.